New Podcast Release: Dasho Dechen Wangmo

In the latest episode of Lives Well Lived, the podcast I co-host with Kasia de Lazari-Radek, we speak with Bhutan’s former Minister of Health, Dasho Dechen Wangmo.

Dasho Dechen Wangmo played a pivotal role in leading Bhutan through the COVID-19 pandemic, keeping the country’s death toll among the lowest in the world. In our conversation, she explains how Bhutan was able to achieve that extraordinary success.

We also explore Bhutan’s broader approach to wellbeing: the philosophy of Gross National Happiness. Dechen Wangmo explains how this framework shapes health care, education, environmental policy, and even tourism, with Bhutan offering universal health care and free education while remaining the world’s only carbon-negative country.

We discuss her personal reflections on happiness, leadership, and the values that underpin Bhutanese life, including the role of Buddhism as a way of living in service to others.

Below are some highlights from our conversation, edited for clarity. You can listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform.

Bhutan’s Extraordinary COVID-19 Response

KASIA DE LAZARI RADEK: You became Bhutan's Minister of Health in 2018, at a relatively young age for such an important post, just 42. Two years into the position, you had to guide Bhutan through the global COVID-19 pandemic. Under your leadership, Bhutan achieved a 94% vaccination rate in just four days and came through the pandemic with one of the world's lowest death rates.

I guess if any Prime Minister is now listening to us, he or she would love to have you as a Minister of Health. How were you able to achieve that success?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Thank you for this opportunity to share our story. When I look back now, a few years after the pandemic, I feel there were three elements that were crucial in our response.

First, trust in leadership. His Majesty was at the forefront of the response and was the uniting factor, bringing people together. Second, both the Prime Minister and I came from medical backgrounds, he a surgeon and I a public health professional, which helped build public trust in our communication. Third, solidarity. Every Bhutanese citizen felt that our tiny country was in danger and that we all had a role to play, regardless of political or religious beliefs.

Finally, our small size was an advantage. With a population of 700,000, we could be agile, responsive, and effective.

Meticulous Planning in Challenging Terrain

PETER SINGER: Bhutan is a small country, but when we visited, we noticed how mountainous it is. Were some of the rural communities difficult to reach?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Definitely, Peter. We’re right in the Himalayas, so access is a big issue. We relied on micro-planning, literally mapping out vaccine delivery: when it would arrive, who would transport it, how many horses or vehicles were needed, and even backup plans in case a horse or handler became ill. We had to account for the lack of cold storage infrastructure in remote areas.

Why Bhutanese Trust Their Leaders

KASIA DE LAZARI RADEK: In many parts of the world, there’s growing division and distrust. Why are Bhutanese citizens so trusting and united?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: This is just my personal view, but I believe it’s because of our leadership by example. Bhutan’s democracy was a gift from the throne. Our fourth King travelled the country encouraging people to accept democracy, even though many wanted to retain the monarchy. He said: “I have been a good king, and so was my father, but we don’t know what kind of king the future will bring. We must protect the people.” That kind of benevolent leadership builds deep trust.

Measuring the Success of the Government by the Achievement of Greater Happiness

KASIA DE LAZARI RADEK: Bhutan is also known for its Gross National Happiness policy. Could you explain how that connects to health and wellbeing?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Gross National Happiness, or GNH, is a philosophy coined by our fourth King. It puts the wellbeing of our people at the centre of development. In Bhutan, healthcare is free, from immunisation at birth to palliative care at the end of life. You can see a neurologist within two days, and if treatment isn’t available in the country, the government will fund a referral abroad. Our out-of-pocket healthcare spending is under 2%.

PETER SINGER: That’s extraordinary, especially when compared to the U.S., which spends about 17% of GDP on healthcare and still doesn’t cover everyone.

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Our size helps, we’re just 700,000 people. But the key is our focus on prevention and primary healthcare, a principle introduced by our third King. Education is also free, from primary through tertiary levels. And we’re the only carbon-negative country in the world. We may not have cutting-edge tech, but we breathe clean air and protect our forests. Good governance, low corruption, and transparency are also core to GNH.

The Unique Philosophy of Gross National Happiness (GNH)

PETER SINGER: But how do you measure happiness? GDP is easy to calculate. Happiness isn’t.

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: At the academic level, GNH uses a composite index derived from indicators like time use, health, mental wellbeing, environment, and community vitality. Every policy must pass a GNH screening to evaluate its impact not just economically but also socially, culturally, and environmentally.

Happiness here is collective. Even if I can’t buy a BMW, I’m happy if my son has a free education and my parents get healthcare. That’s the kind of happiness we measure.

PETER SINGER: So Bhutan’s model values a deeper, more sustainable kind of happiness—built on connection, community, and care?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Exactly. It’s not just about personal comfort. It’s about shared wellbeing.

The Philosophy Behind Bhutan’s Tourism

PETER SINGER: Bhutan has a unique tourism model, high-value, low-impact. Can you explain how that works?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: Our fourth King introduced it before we became a democracy. Tourists pay a Sustainable Development Fee, currently $100 USD per day. That money funds healthcare, education, and infrastructure. So when you visit Bhutan, you’re also investing in our people. While enjoying our pristine environment, you’re indirectly supporting our public services.

The Global Warning on Future Pandemics

PETER SINGER: You’ve also had a global impact. As President of the World Health Assembly, you’ve warned about the next pandemic. What should we learn from the last one?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: It was a humbling experience. I saw firsthand the stark inequities—people dying without access to vaccines or care. We need a “humanitarian corridor” during crises: unrestricted access to health supplies for all countries, especially those who produce nothing themselves. Bhutan, for example, doesn’t produce face masks, vaccines, or syringes.

We must learn from the pandemic and build global solidarity. Without that, we will not be ready for the next one.

Personal Reflections on Happiness

KASIA DE LAZARI RADEK: Finally, how do you assess your own happiness?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: I feel blessed. Happiness is having tea with my father and seeing my 13-year-old son in the morning. Life isn’t about waiting for fireworks, it’s about appreciating small moments. Doing something meaningful for my country is my greatest joy.

Buddhism and Bhutanese Values

PETER SINGER: Is religion important to you?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: I see Buddhism as a way of life. My father always said: anything you do to serve others is a religious activity. That’s how I try to live, with sincerity, service, and compassion.