New Podcast Release: Frances Kissling
The latest episode of "Lives Well Lived," the podcast I co-host with Kasia de Lazari-Radek, is now available.
In this episode, Kasia and I had the pleasure of speaking with Frances Kissling, a Catholic advocate for reproductive rights, for 25 years president of Catholics for Choice, and an insightful critic of the Catholic Church. Here are some highlights from our conversation, lightly edited for clarity. You can now listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform.
On Growing Up in a Polish Immigrant Family:
Katarzyna de Lazari-Radek: “As a warm-up, I thought I would ask you about whether there were any typical Polish features in your upbringing. I know about religion, but how about food, books, music?”
Frances Kissling: “I come from a working-class Polish immigrant family and grew up in New York. I was an avid reader as a child; my mother would take me to the library once a week, and I would take out four books and read them all. I also went to Catholic schools through second grade.”
On Her Decision to Become a Nun:
Peter Singer: “I'm wondering whether your decision as a teenager to become a nun is also part of your Polish background?”
Frances Kissling: “I don't think so, because my family was not particularly religious. My mother was rebellious in one way or another; she got herself pregnant, got married, got divorced, and remarried. I was influenced by the idea that being a nun was the highest form of life. I always wanted to do the best, to be number one in school.”
On Her Activism and Views on Abortion:
Katarzyna de Lazari-Radek: “You stand for pro-choice, but you've never said that abortion is a woman's right to choose. Why not?”
Frances Kissling: “I think that rights language in this arena doesn't go very far. For every right, there's a counterbalancing right. Talking about the right to have an abortion opens the door for the right of the fetus to be born. I prefer to talk about it in terms of women's freedom and autonomy, and the conflict between two values: the value of life and the value of identity and self.”
On the Importance of Fun and a Well-Lived Life:
Peter Singer: “You talked about the importance of fun. Do you think having fun while doing important work is a key to a well-lived life?”
Frances Kissling: “Absolutely. I feel excitement and love thinking. I don't want to be Pollyanna-ish, but while there have been moments of sorrow and failure, they are few and far between. I criticize myself without feeling bad. It's about recognizing my humanity and learning to do better.”
Closing Thoughts:
Peter Singer: “So, in a world with horrors, you're saying a life well-lived is one where you have your eyes open to these horrors, feel them, and do something about it.”
Frances Kissling: “Yes, you do something about it. You do your small part. That's what makes a life well-lived.”