New Podcast Release: Will MacAskill

Will MacAskill is a philosopher and one of the leading figures behind effective altruism, a movement that asks how we can use evidence and reason to do the most good. His work spans questions of global poverty, existential risk, and how individuals can align their lives with their values in a complex and uncertain world.

In the latest episode of Lives Well Lived, the podcast I co-host with Kasia de Lazari-Radek, we discuss how Will’s thinking developed from an early interest in moral philosophy into a practical framework for action. We explore what it means to take ethical ideas seriously in one’s own life, how to think about giving and career choice, and why some causes may matter far more than others.

In our conversation, we also consider the moral importance of future generations, the risks posed by emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence, and how to act under conditions of deep moral uncertainty. Throughout, Will reflects on the challenge of living in accordance with one’s values while maintaining a sense of balance and humanity.

Below are some extracts from our discussion, organised thematically and lightly edited for clarity.

From moral belief to action

PETER SINGER: You’ve said that you were convinced that we have a moral obligation to donate much more than we typically do, but that you weren’t yet acting on those beliefs. What changed for you?

WILL MACASKILL: I had been very convinced, even as a teenager, that we have a moral obligation to donate much more than we typically do, but I hadn’t yet found the moral motivation. It was only once I started volunteering that it really started to weigh on me that I wasn’t acting in accordance with my values. I had this sense that I was not doing what I ought to be doing. And it was meeting people who were willing to really put their money where their mouth was, living on 9,000 pounds per year, and had pledged to give all of their income above a baseline, that had a big effect on me.

Living on less, giving more

PETER SINGER: You’ve structured your life in a way that allows you to give away a large proportion of your income. How do you think about that in practical terms?

WILL MACASKILL: I still live on what is the equivalent of 20,000 pounds, and then donate the rest above that. I would consider that I live quite a luxurious life within these bounds. I’ve deliberately tried to cultivate dispositions and interests that are cheaper to fulfil. That’s been an important part of making this sustainable over the long term. If I can save time, then that’s the place where I really do try and spend money. Most of the time, I’m not feeling like I’m sacrificing things that I really value.

The importance of effectiveness

PETER SINGER: One of the central ideas in effective altruism is that some ways of helping are much more effective than others. How large are those differences?

WILL MACASKILL: Donating to a highly effective organisation can do hundreds or even thousands of times as much good as donating to an average organization. You can either save a child’s life for $5,000 or give someone in a rich country maybe one extra month of life. That’s why there’s such a radical difference in how much impact you can have. And that’s something that people often underestimate.

Rethinking career choice

PETER SINGER: People often think about careers in terms of what they are most passionate about. You’ve suggested a different approach.

WILL MACASKILL: People want to look inside themselves and ask what they most want to do. Whereas we encourage people to look at the world and ask what the world needs, what sorts of person and aptitudes are most needed. That can lead to quite different conclusions. Then you can think about where you might fit into that. And in some cases, rather than working directly on a problem, you might pursue some career where you are able to earn more and donate.

Present needs and future risks

PETER SINGER: A lot of your recent work has focused on long-term risks. How do you balance concern for present problems with concern for future generations?

WILL MACASKILL: We have enough problems in the present, and I would say we should be working on those. But that doesn’t mean that problems that impact future generations don’t also exist. There are the sorts of things that could result in the end of civilisation or even the complete extinction of the human race. And that would be extremely bad, by completely curtailing the future, by there being no future at all.

Artificial intelligence and loss of control

KASIA DE LAZARI-RADEK: Can you tell us something about the risks of AI and how you think about them?

WILL MACASKILL: I’ve gotten more and more concerned over time. I now think it’s more likely than not that we will see really enormous amounts of change from AI, even within a short period of time, in the next five or ten years. I think it’s more likely than not that we have AI that automates the process of research and development, where you have AI scientists ultimately wholly replacing people.

What follows from that is an enormous number of challenges. One category is the way that we might lose control to AI systems themselves, where humanity is no longer actually in charge in the future, and instead it is some other system with quite alien preferences.

The thing I’m most worried about at the moment is intense concentration of power. At the point where AI can generally substitute for humans, you could have radically greater concentration of power than we have ever seen.

Moral uncertainty

PETER SINGER: You’ve also written about moral uncertainty. How confident are you in any particular moral theory?

WILL MACASKILL: If I have to pick, I would go for something like classical utilitarianism. But my credence in that is very low. I’m very sceptical about our ability to know the correct moral theory. I have quite a lot of credence in nihilism. And I think it’s very likely that we haven’t yet figured out the correct moral view.

Living well

PETER SINGER: Given all of this, do you think you are living a good life?

WILL MACASKILL: I think I’m living a life in accordance with my own values. There’s always the thought that one could have done more. I do feel that tension. But I also think it’s important to maintain my overall humanity. And to have a huge positive impact without sacrificing other dimensions of life.